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taciturnfriend
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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: A bright, shiny city by the sea

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meg wrote:
That's very cool. Thanks for the link. Very Happy They need to to get T. S. Eliot and his weird accent on there.


I'm sure they will! I used to have a tape of Eliot reading. Quite strange, as it was so different from the way the poems sounded in my head.

Quote:
While less extensive in terms of poets The New York Times Audio Archive has full readings by Auden, Ginsberg and others. Nabokov reading both his poetry and prose is pretty cool.


That is cool.
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Harry
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taciturnfriend wrote:
Don't think anyone's mentioned this yet: The Poetry Archive, a fantastic new resource collecting recordings of poets reading their work. They already have a good collection of historic and contemporary recordings on there (hear Tennyson - barely audibly - reading Charge of the Light Brigade! Browning forgetting his lines! Louis MacNeice's extraordinary voice! Yeats's charming introduction to Innisfree!). Completely fascinating, and it will surely get better.

Only annoying thing is that the sound clips don't work in Firefox for me, I have to use IE. Any computer-savvy types know of a way to fix this?


I'm not getting them to work in IE, either. Any guesses, anyone?
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taciturnfriend
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some poems by Oswald LeWinter, a man with a complex past and who, as a poet, has been compared to Crane and Rimbaud. His selected poems have recently been published as Ages of Chaos and Fury.


Coming Out

How shall I emerge?
For a chrysalis, too fat,
gay doesn’t suit the look,
below my eyes, a classic
mask of tragedy. I am
no beast but neither
am I elf nor fairy. Fond
as Rabelais of mischief,
the seismic rage of Caliban,
disguised as servility,
bursts the mind's dam
quicker, floods my veins
with bile. Is it envy
that congeals my blood?
Like Narcissus, I am
caught in the shimmer
of my reflection, held
therein by curiosity,
lacking substance, all
liquid, and dissolving
when I stir my self.



Smolensk In A Storm

Hail sashays down the lane,
beats on the panes of the half-
finished house: a lone storm
seeking a place near birches
crackling in the fireplace.

The tablecloth, faded spring
daisies, is mirrored in the vodka,
before each guest, the last toast
lessened. Juri bends over the oval
to refill each large glass.

Mascha waits to ladle out
the borscht, thick with chunks
of venison, steaming from the iron
pot that dominates the center
girdled by bowls of boiled spuds.

It’s two days past Christmas,
but the family has waited to celebrate
a son’s safe return from Chechnya.
Oleg, the swagger he left with gone,
sits sideways, in far-off thoughts

with comrades choking on their blood.
The others understand. Russians know
how war scars souls. It’s in the vodka,
in the fire that courses down throats,
where memories drown, not for long.

Juri remembers his own battles, more
than half a century ago, Donets Basin,
Stalingrad, Berlin, roses of blood
sprouting from exploded breasts.
He downs his glass to burn the past.



Recollections in Turmoil


Here I sit, an old spider, patiently placing word
after word, hoping the whole will hold some meaning,
some basic revelation, some eternal certainty
and the accident of perfection that is finally each life.

All metaphors are caskets in which to bury half-
known feelings we attempt to name, rages intuited,
or loves that ripened slowly like soft cheese we desired
to feast on, despite its bouquet of decay.

I have not lived peacefully! Why should I then be
tranquil when I write poems; pretend the words
I confiscate from abstract decoys in order to possess and
brand them as my own with immediate joy, immediate

despair, and the laughter of a man about to hang,
leave me cool and distant as a star whose light reaches us
long after it has died. No, they are something else,
if you like, dancing partners held with fiercest passion,

and uncertainty as well. Bitch Goddess! I am
your suitor in hand-me-down trousers, your ugly frog
who wishes nothing more than to be changed into the blond
prince of my Jewish dreams by your prized kiss.

I know full well that I may end stiffly spurned, holding
nothing but myself in tired and arthritic hands, on a hard bench
in the ghetto of old age, and yet I keep on rising
every time the quartet in the mind strikes up another tune.
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like those, Darren, especially the second one.

Is that a typo by the way, or does he really spell the name Mascha? The normal form is Masha, diminute of Mariya. (I would also transliterate Yuriy rather than Juri, but that's by-the-by.)

Venison borscht is quite some luxury! Wink
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taciturnfriend
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imaginarylove wrote:
Is that a typo by the way, or does he really spell the name Mascha? The normal form is Masha, diminute of Mariya. (I would also transliterate Yuriy rather than Juri, but that's by-the-by.)


I'm not sure - that one's not from the book but from an online article about a reading he gave in Russia. There were a couple of obvious errors that I corrected, so it is possible there's a miss-spelling as well. Here's another from the same source:


Glinka In Smolensk

Glinka knows the white snow falling
is music; the flakes are not notes,
the silence between the notes are tones.
Glinka knows the snow will be black
before morning. He stands, straight
as a plumb line in the park facing
the Concert Hall that was once
a casino for the Czar’s titled parasites.
Although frozen in patinated bronze,
he hears the horns opening the overture
to Ruslan and Lyudmila, bright, insistent
as massing snow in the gold- domed hall.
Tones drift across the car-park,
to gather at his white boots that might
dance wildly like the whirling mass
if the wind were in his limbs.

Glinka’s Russia has a heart again.
It is New Year’s Eve. The tocsins
celebrating the survival of the city
clamoring from the five-domed
Uspenski Cathedral have been
still for forty-eight years now;
since Zhukov hurled decimated regiments
and Panzers back across the flooded
Dnieper. And the even louder bells
of the Bogoyavlenski Cathedral
have not tolled for one-hundred-
ninety-one years, when Napoleon
dragged his frozen grenadiers
home, from the unbreachable gates.

Smolensk treasures artists and Bogatyrs.
Its greens abound with monuments:
Tchaikovsky and Pushkin offer
their shoulders to pigeons, Derzhavin
stands near Dostoevsky, with Moussorgsky
seated between them in stone, providing shelter
for squirrels from the dogs nearby residents loose
in the park to pee on Chaliapin’s bronze pants.
Only Glinka stands alone, clarinet stiff
in the pit of the season, hugged by ice,
the base of his memorial graced
by bronze pages bearing the score of Kamarinskaya.
In the alley of heroes Zhukov’s bust is tarnished.
And prince Bagration sits on his Akhal-Teke
stallion, Seljuk, smiling as the French
straggle home. Where Stalin’s metal eyes
menaced the populace, an oak bares its boughs.

The concert ended, Zoya and I exit
and trudge through ankle-deep drifts
to pay homage to Mikhail Glinka.
All of him is covered in new snow
on this night his music melted glaciers.



Also, I just read this:

Dead you will lie and never memory of you
will there be nor any desire into the aftertime - for you do not share in the roses
of Pieria, but invisible too in Hades' house
you will go your way among dim shapes. Having been breathed out.

(from Anne Carson's If Not, Winter: Fragments of Sappho)
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Meg
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Heartbeat Anne Carson.
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sappho/Anne Carson wrote:
Dead you will lie and never memory of you
will there be nor any desire into the aftertime - for you do not share in the roses
of Pieria, but invisible too in Hades' house
you will go your way among dim shapes. Having been breathed out.


This is a frequent theme of Classical poetry - that the function of poetry is to serve as memory, and even the greatest of the great are lost to history without poetry. The Muses are the daughters of Memory.

Vixere fortes ante Agamemnona
Multi: sed omnes illacrimabiles
Urgentur, ignotique longa
Nocte, carent quia vate sacro.


Many brave men lived before Agamemon
But all are oppressed by the long night of oblivion,
Unmourned and unknown,
Because they lack a divine bard.*

Horace, Odes IV.ix
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Woman of the Species
by Rudyard Kipling
1911

When the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride,
He shouts to scare the monster, who will often turn aside.
But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When Nag the basking cobra hears the careless foot of man,
He will sometimes wriggle sideways and avoid it if he can.
But his mate makes no such motion where she camps beside the trail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When the early Jesuit fathers preached to Hurons and Choctaws,
They prayed to be delivered from the vengeance of the squaws.
'Twas the women, not the warriors, turned those stark enthusiasts pale.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away;
But when hunter meets with husband, each confirms the other's tale --
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man, a bear in most relations - worm and savage otherwise, --
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
Mirth obscene diverts his anger --- Doubt and Pity oft perplex
Him in dealing with an issue -- to the scandal of The Sex!

But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same;
And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
May not deal in doubt or pity -- must not swerve for fact or jest.
These be purely male diversions -- not in these her honour dwells.
She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.
And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

She is wedded to convictions -- in default of grosser ties;
Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies! --
He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

Unprovoked and awful charges -- even so the she-bear fights,
Speech that drips, corrodes, and poisons -- even so the cobra bites,
Scientific vivisection of one nerve till it is raw
And the victim writhes in anguish -- like the Jesuit with the squaw!

So it cames that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice -- which no woman understands.

And Man knows it! Knows, moreover, that the Woman that God gave him
Must command but may not govern -- shall enthral but not enslave him.
And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail,
That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why, but I imagine the above being read in the voice of the late Willie Rushton.
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taciturnfriend
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha. Kipling's total mastery of that metre is a joy. I might repost the Tommy Atkins one that snuck into another thread at some point.

In the meantime, something more serious.

To Jesus on His Birthday
Edna St. Vincent Millay

For this your mother sweated in the cold,
For this you bled upon the bitter tree:
A yard of tinsel ribbon bought and sold;
A paper wreath; a day at home for me.
The merry bells ring out, the people kneel;
Up goes the man of God before the crowd;
With voice of honey and with eyes of steel
He drones your humble gospel to the proud.
Nobody listens. Less than the wind that blows
Are all your words to us you died to save.
O Prince of Peace! O Sharon's dewy Rose!
How mute you lie within your vaulted grave.
The stone the angel rolled away with tears
Is back upon your mouth these thousand years.
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Harry
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ought to have been paying more attention to this thread. Lovely choices, folks.

These two poems have at least one thing in common: they both turn a single word, through using it over and over in so many different contexts, into something of immense power.


Kissing
Dorianne Laux

They are kissing, on a park bench,
on the edge of an old bed, in a doorway
or on the floor of a church. Kissing
as the streets fill with balloons
or soldiers, locusts or confetti, water
or fire or dust. Kissing down through
the centuries under sun or stars, a dead tree,
an umbrella, amid derelicts. Kissing
as Christ carries his cross, as Gandhi
sings his speeches, as a bullet
careens through the air towards a child's
good heart. They are kissing,
long, deep, spacious kisses, exploring
the silence of the tongue, the mute
rungs of the upper palate, hungry
for the living flesh. They are still
kissing when the cars crash and the bombs
drop, when the babies are born crying
into the white air, when Mozart bends
to his bowl of soup and Stalin
bends to his garden. They are kissing
to begin the world again. Nothing
can stop them. They kiss until their lips
swell, their thick tongues quickening
to the budded touch, licking up
the sweet juices. I want to believe
they are kissing to save the world,
but they're not. All they know
is the press and need, these two-legged
beasts, their faces like roses crushed
together and opening, they are covering
their teeth, they are doing what they have to do
to durvive the worst, they are sealing
the hard words in, they are dying
for our sins. In a broken world they are
practising this simple and singular act
to perfection. They are holding
onto each other. They are kissing.

Confessions of a Nude
Nin Andrews

All last night I dreamt we were nude.
Today, even the clouds took the shape of nudes.
My book is A Field Guide to Nudes.
The snow is a landscape of shsdowy nudes.
The zebraed light, the crystal vase,
the trees, the fruit on the sitting-room table,
the silk shirt on the floor,
everything is a nude. But is everything nude?
A flower in winter is a woman nude.
The trees are sillhouettes of nude men,
like you in almost every respect
but a bit more handsome, smooth-muscled
with another name and minty breath . . .
You would have admired him, too, but you were with her,
and she was touching you with her smal nude breasts,
making us instant nudes, snapping the shutter . . .
When you gaze at me like that, I feel completely nude.

Why don't we continue this conversation in the nude?
We could be two nudes ascending the staircase,
two red nudes wandering the empty streets . . .
And the city became a city of nudes.
It was you I wanted, not this stranger.
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are in a lusty mood today, Lodders!

Neither of those poems does much for me, I'm afraid. Mere titillation doth not a poem make.

On the other hand, I love that sonnet Darren cited. In particular, the first four lines, with the contrast between the first and second couplets, and also the final couplet.

I expect you all know this one (continuing the Christmas theme). It's my favourite T.S. Eliot poem. The debt to Tennyson's Ulysses is obvious.

Journey of the Magi

'A cold coming we had of it,
Just the worst time of the year
For a journey, and such a journey:
The ways deep and the weather sharp,
The very dead of winter.'
And the camels galled, sore-footed,
refractory,
Lying down in the melting snow.
There were times we regretted
The summer palaces on slopes, the
terraces,
And the silken girls bringing sherbet.

Then the camel men cursing and
grumbling
And running away, and wanting their
liquor and women,
And the night-fires going out, and the
lack of shelters,
And the cities hostile and the towns
unfriendly
And the villages dirty and charging high
prices:
A hard time we had of it.
At the end we preferred to travel all
night,
Sleeping in snatches,
With the voices singing in our ears,
saying
That this was all folly.

Then at dawn we came down to a
temperate valley,
Wet, below the snow line, smelling of
vegetation;
With a running stream and a water-mill
beating the darkness,
And three trees on the low sky,
And an old white horse galloped in
away in the meadow.
Then we came to a tavern with
vine-leaves over the lintel,
Six hands at an open door dicing for
pieces of silver,
And feet kicking the empty wine-skins.
But there was no imformation, and so
we continued
And arrived at evening, not a moment
too soon
Finding the place; it was (you may say)
satisfactory.

All this was a long time ago, I
remember,
And I would do it again, but set down
This set down
This: were we led all that way for
Birth or Death? There was a Birth,
certainly,
We had evidence and no doubt. I had
seen birth and death,
But had thought they were different;
this Birth was
Hard and bitter agony for us, like
Death, our death.
We returned to our places, these
Kingdoms,
But no longer at ease here, in the old
dispensation,
With an alien people clutching their
gods.
I should be glad of another death.
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*bump*
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Meg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, sure, bump it and don't give us anything to read. I want unsucky holiday poems. I don't seem to know any though. So here is something completely not holiday related. Smile


Tollund Man - Seamus Heaney

I
Some day I will go to Aarhus
To see his peat-brown head,
The mild pods of his eye-lids,
His pointed skin cap.


In the flat country near by
Where they dug him out,
His last gruel of winter seeds
Caked in his stomach,


Naked except for
The cap, noose and girdle,
I will stand a long time.
Bridegroom to the goddess,


She tightened her torc on him
And opened her fen,
Those dark juices working
Him to a saint's kept body,


Trove of the turfcutters'
Honeycombed workings.
Now his stained face
Reposes at Aarhus.


II


I could risk blasphemy,
Consecrate the cauldron bog
Our holy ground and pray
Him to make germinate


The scattered, ambushed
Flesh of labourers,
Stockinged corpses
Laid out in the farmyards,


Tell-tale skin and teeth
Flecking the sleepers
Of four young brothers, trailed
For miles along the lines.
III


Something of his sad freedom
As he rode the tumbril
Should come to me, driving,
Saying the names
Tollund, Grauballe, Nebelgard,
Watching the pointing hands
Of country people,
Not knowing their tongue.
Out here in Jutland
In the old man-killing parishes
I will feel lost,
Unhappy and at home.
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imaginarylove
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meg wrote:
I want unsucky holiday poems.


Well, here is one that I for a long time thought was sucky, but now quite like. See what you think.

Christmas
John Betjeman

The bells of waiting Advent ring,
The Tortoise stove is lit again
And lamp-oil light across the night
Has caught the streaks of winter rain
In many a stained-glass window sheen
From Crimson Lake to Hooker’s Green.

The holly in the windy hedge
And round the Manor House the yew
Will soon be stripped to deck the ledge,
The altar, font and arch and pew
So that the villagers can say
‘The church looks nice’ on Christmas Day.

Provincial public houses blaze
And Corporation tramcars clang.
On lighted tenements I gaze
Where paper decorations hang,
And bunting in the red Town Hall
Says ‘Merry Christmas to you all.’

And London shops on Christmas Eve
Are strung with silver bells and flowers
As hurrying clerks the City leave
To pigeon-haunted classic towers,
And marbled clouds go scudding by
The many-steepled London sky.

And girls in slacks remember Dad,
And oafish louts remember Mum,
And sleepless children’s hearts are glad,
And Christmas-morning bells say ‘Come!’
Even to shining ones who dwell
Safe in the Dorchester Hotel.

And is it true? And is it true,
This most tremendous tale of all,
Seen in a stained-glass window’s hue,
A Baby in an ox’s stall?
The Maker of the stars and sea
Become a Child on earth for me?

And is it true? For if it is,
No loving fingers tying strings
Around those tissued fripperies,
The sweet and silly Christmas things,
Bath salts and inexpensive scent
And hideous tie so kindly meant,

No love that in a family dwells,
No carolling in frosty air,
Nor all the steeple-shaking bells
Can wit this single Truth compare –
That God was Man in Palestine
And lives today in Bread and Wine.
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